Tuesday, August 09, 2005

Random Thought

It looks like baseball season is over on the blog but since I don't know anything about football or basketball I'm going to keep blogging about it anyway. And since I don't know anything about baseball outside of the Yankees, I will further limit myself to that topic.

It just occurred to me that the Yanks have legitimate candidates for AL MVP (A-Rod), Cy Young (Rivera) and Rookie of the Year (Cano). This thought inspired 2 questions 1) Can you imagine how far ahead they'd be in the AL East if they could stay healthy and hadn't started out the season so poorly (especially since they have the unofficial comeback of the year in Giambi)? and 2) has a team ever won all 3 before (in either league)?

11 comments:

Mighty Mike said...

I think it is an excellent point as to if the Yanks had any sort consistent starting pitching (which I assume is semi-related to having players not be injuried every other day).

I feel like Seattle in 2001 had contenders for everything (although that may be unfair in that Ichiro was both MVP and rookie of the year). My vote for MVP this year has to be for Manny (for on and off the field production)

B. Hutchens said...

I would have to say for the AL MVP I would have to go with Teixeira or as I call him Texarkana. But I think that it is a toss up between Manny, Arod, Tex and the Son of God, himself. I think that Damon is definately having an MVP year. As for the CY, unfortunately I think that one of the White Sox pitchers might win it but my vote is for Harry Leroy "Doc" Halladay. Before he went down with a broken leg, he had been lights out. As far as the NL is concerned...I finally give the MVP to Poopholes (FUCK YOU Barry) and the Cy to Rocket (who will have the lowest ERA since Gibby in 1968) and at the age of 42, amazing.

MJ said...

If I had to pick AL MVP for the year, I'd have to go with Rivera.

I've always been a big believer that a relief pitcher should NEVER, except in extreme circumstances, win the Cy Young but should, more often than not, be eligible for serious consideration for the MVP. My reasoning is that while it's almost impossible for a relief pitcher to have better pure pitching performances than a starter, a reliever (synonymous with closer in 99.9% cases) can actually be more valuable to his team than any other player. I use the Gagne example from 2003 as my ammunition. Gagne saved all 55 games he appeared in that season, directly leading to 55 victories for his team (57 total if you include his 2 wins as well). He was directly involved in 67% of his team's 85 victories that year. In my mind, he had as much of an impact on his team's success as Bonds did that season. However, he did not outpitch Jason Schmidt or Mark Prior, both of whom pitched more than double the innings Gagne did. In my opinion, Gagne probably should've finished top-3 in MVP voting that year and not won the Cy.

Anyway, that was a digression to the point about Rivera. I think he's the true MVP of the AL this year. He's won and saved 35 of the Yanks 60 W's (58%). ARod and Manny are both having amazing offensive seasons but both hit in incredibly deep lineups that have, in part, an impact on the quality of pitches they see. I'd like to see Rivera-Manny-ARod go 1-2-3 in the MVP voting. My nudge for Manny over ARod for the silver medal is only because I think Manny's a better RBI producer. His stats with RISP show an OPS of 1.301 vs. ARod's .842 in similar situations. That should give Manny the edge in my opinion. Manny is one of the greatest run producers of my lifetime and on the top 25 all time.

Quickly, the Cy Young in the AL probably belongs to Mark Buehrle, although it pains me to say it. All I know is that it's a bad year for pitching in the AL if Buerhle and Garland finish 1-2. Santana, Schilling, Johnson, Halladay, Colon and Zito should all be ashamed of themselves for potentially finishing behind these goddamn White Sox slop-artists.

AL Rookie of the Year should be Robinson Cano in a very tight race. I know Gustavo Chacin is on pace for 17 wins and Nick Swisher leads all major league rookies in HR and RBI but neither one has impressed me quite as much as Cano. Here's a kid who started his career hitting .087 and is now hitting close to .300 playing 2nd base every day for a team in a pennant chase. He hits in the top of the order and plays in the biggest pressure cooker in baseball. Frankly, I think the voters owe the Yanks one anyway since that voting travesty of 2003 when writers got self-righteous and gave Angel Berroa the award over a more-deserving Hideki Matsui.

B. Hutchens said...

One final thing. Beth, no team has ever been given all of the awards for ROY, CY and MVP. There have been a couple of players that have won the CY and MVP. NL: Gibby in '68, Koufax '63, Don Newcombe in '58. AL: Eck in '92, Rocket in '86, Willie Hernandez in '84 and Rollie in '81 and Denny McLain in '68. A couple of players have won the CY and ROY or MVP and ROY in the same year as well. Fernando did it in '81, etc.

Mighty Mike said...

After thinking about it I still have to side with Manny. The main reason is that Boston is having a better year than New York. A-Rod had incrediable stats at Texas but I felt never deserved the MVP because Texas stunk. In games that Red Sox win Manny is hitting around .350 and in games Red Sox lose he's hitting around .118 or so. I think it all depends on one's criteria for the MVP (I think baseball's are the most nebolous) but I would vote for the most valuable player on the best team (if I would vote for an MVP of the yanks it would Rivera similiarly this year I think Wickman has been the MVP of the Indians nudging out Travis Hafner)

MJ said...

I should also address Colonel Sanders' nominees (Teixeira and Damon). Damon is having a good season but is not an MVP candidate because he's scoring runs only as fast as Papi and Manny can drive him home. I find it very hard to think of leadoff hitters as MVPs because runs scored are a function of lineup slot and the HR/RBI/OPS never match up favorably with the middle-of-the-order thumpers. Sure, in certain cases a leadoff hitter is the single largest catalyst for team success (see Ichiro, 2001) but I don't see that in play here. As for Teixeira, I love the kid and I think he's got a great future in the game but I want to see him do better on the road. His home-road splits tell me all I need to know about his MVP chances:

Home: .311 AVG/22 HR/60 RBI/.388 OBP/1.042 OPS

Road: .246 AVG/9 HR/32 RBI/.319 OBP/.748 OPS

That's not MVP stuff in my book.

And since Colonel Hutchens brought it up, I've changed my mind on the NL Cy Young several times. I think Chris Carpenter and Rocket have competition from Pedro. In my mind, those three guys have separated themselves from the pack and I think Pedro should get a very serious look. Pedro's 5th in innings, 6th in wins, 2nd in K's and 6th in ERA. Opposing batters are hitting .190 against him this year. That's incredible!

MJ said...

Wow, every time I finish a comment I see a new posting that requires yet another comment! Come on, people, I have a job here, I can't spend all day commenting!

Mikey, I can't say that I agree with the concept that the MVP of the best team should win the league's MVP award. While I agree that players on bad teams should generally be passed over, I don't think there's any magic number for a team's number of games out that should correlate to their best player's disqualification from the MVP race. Specifically in the Manny/ARod debate, I would say that both players play with equally deserving MVP candidates (Ortiz and Sheffield) which could and should be factored in to split the vote to some degree. I don't think Tejada or Vlad, the sole legitimate run producers for their respective teams, should be disqualified based on team record. Likewise, Bob Abreu, who's team has as good a shot of ending in last place as they do in first should ABSOLUTELY be given MVP consideration. There should be absolutely ZERO set guidelines for MVP voting in baseball. It should be a once-a-year, go-with-the-flow thing that takes several factors into consideration besides team standing.

As I said before, I don't think there's a single player in the AL more valuable than Mariano Rivera. If you sit there and think about it, he is the only pitcher in the entire AL East that is having a stellar season. He's the best pitcher in his entire division and the best relief pitcher in the AL. He's directly responsible for 35 of his team's 60 victories and he's been dominant since the 3rd day of the season (0.92 ERA, 0.73 WHIP, .146 BAA, 9.9 K/9).

If Manny got hurt tomorrow, the Red Sox would be weakened but still able to compete. If Rivera went down (GOD FORBID), the Yanks would be completely finished. Who's your MVP now?

B. Hutchens said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
B. Hutchens said...

I still think that Rocket deserves the nod...Opposing batters are batting .191 against him, he has allowed 24 ERs this year. Carpenter has give up 20 more ERs. He has only given up 6 HRs. Plus he is 42 years old. My nod goes to the immortal one to win his record 8th Cy Young. As far as the AL ROY of the year award goes I originally thought that Jorge Cantu was a good choice (but he is ineligible). One player that is getting overlooked is Huston Street. He has been lights out in the bullpen for the As and has a .181 average against and 0.93 WHIP and 1.31 ERA with 13 saves.

Mighty Mike said...

I probably overstated the best player on best team (I pulled an espn I suppose). I merely meant that players on teams that are doing better should get brownie points (e.g. comparing stats doesn't paint the whole picture). If Lee wins the triple crown he should get serious consideration for the MVP for the feat but if he slips at all I would vote Pujols in over him a heartbeat because of how much better the Cards are then the Cubs.

MJ said...

Personally I'm rooting for Derrek Lee to get the Triple Crown because I'd like to say that one happened in my lifetime. Moreover, it's someone I can root for. I'd rather not have it be Barry Bonds or some other asshole like that.